Mail Ad from WDW

Parks, resorts, dining, attractions, vacations

Just rec'd a mailing inviting the "semino" family back to WDW.
Offers 10 reasons why we should visit and it is eveidently based on our 
last stay at AS in "02, as they reference upgrading to a moderate.  
Interesting that they go back no further  (but it could be due to the 
last name misspelling) since that was the only time we ever stayed at 
other than the Poly.
Anyway they are advertising "Dreamaker Packages" beg. in April.
Hmmm, I'm surprised they didn't suggest an Annual Pass. ;)

How predictable. <yawn>.
Sorry, Rodney, I'll stop doing what everyone else does.


I assume you mean being humorous?  Well, had there not been so much "bad
blood" between you and Sandi, it might have been funny, but because of that
history, it was more of an attack, and "everyone else" does not do that.
WTF are you talking about, Rodney?  The fact that Sandi made the
statement was completely irrelevant.  My reply of "Hmmm, I'm surprised
they didn't suggest an Annual Pass," followed by the winking-smiley
emoticon, for the humor impaired, was, merely, an allusion to a
conversation, of which Sandi didn't even partake, in which several of
us debated, endlessly, about APs and whether or not they are marketed
to out of state WDW visitors.

That's what I was referring to "everyone else" doing.  Quite a few
people, yourself included, make a little remark about something that
seems to support their stance in a previous debate.

In other words, I was commenting on the content of the post, not the
poster - as is always suggested we do.  How anything in my nine word
comment could be perceived as "an attack" is way beyond my

As I've said, ad nauseum, I am able to make comments towards posters
I'm supposed to have such a "problem" with that are completely without
malice.  Something that CAN'T be said for them, BTW.  This was one of
those.  The author of the post had NOTHING to do with my comment and,
again, I can't possibly conceive anyone seeing it as "an attack" upon
the poster.


Why?  For, exactly, what you said above:  "...the fact that it was
Sandi is not coincidental."

Yes it is, considering that I didn't even really pay attention to who
the author of the post was.  It's unreal that you, of all people,
would say such a thing.

So, when did you discover this, strange, psychic ability?  Must be
nice to know what someone's intentions were, even more so than the
person who had (or, rather, did not have) said intentions.


That's the problem.  I believe it is totally relevant because had it not
been Sandi or a handful of other people, you would not have said anything.

Yes, I know what you were alluding to, and I also know that Sandi did in
fact participate in that discussion.

Sure, but I don't pick on the same people over and over again.

It wasn't necessarily the nine words, but it was the context and the person
you were replying to.  Like I said, you have a history of bullying certain
people on the NG because you know it will get them stirred-up.  Sometimes I
have to admit that your sarcasm is funny, but I have to admit, the bullying
is getting old.

While you may say your comments are without malice, I am sure they are not
taken that way.  I am a very thick-skinned person and I can take it as well
as I can dish it out.  I sometimes even have a bit of a sadistic streak and
enjoy seeing someone else dish it out, but in this case, the constant
"virtual stalking" that is going on here is just getting old (hence my yawn

Actually, I cannot remember the last time one of "them" commented to you
with sarcasm.

See, I believe differently.  I believe there are few people in the NG you
would have made that comment to.  You might have made it to me, but the fact
that it was Sandi is not coincidental.

So making a comment on a post can be different if it's someone one has
disagreed with in the past?  FWIW, I don't even have a problem with
said poster, beyond the fact that she claims her hatred of me based on
something that NEVER happened.

I resent the comment about "bullying."  Funny, I'm not being bullied
when said poster tells people how I am abusive toward women.  Funny
but the scores of women who are under my employee seem to differ on
that.  A comment, just the other night, by one of them:  "This is the
only place I've worked where I the girls don't have to worry about the
managers making passes at them."

There's that word again.  That's almost as offensive as the whole
"woman-hater" thing.

It's not my fault if someone chooses to hold a grudge and feel
paranoid enough to attempt to find something sinister in everything I
write, is it?

"Virtual stalking" my ass, Rodney.  I guess I really don't know you,
at all and I take complete offense to that accusation.

That would have been the last time I had anything bad to say about
them:  When one of "them" decided that I said terrible things about
Lynn Rudolph, who did not find the slightest thing wrong with a
comment I made about something she posted.

The time before that woud have been when one of "them" coached a new
poster in the party line on what to say about my comments toward that
poster's statements.

It does piss me off that no one ever seems to see when that happens.
But, should I object to someone's negative comments, boy oh boy,
Foxtrot's one lousy bastard.  Now, it seems if I even make a comment,
no matter how trivial it may be, if the conversation involves good,
kindly, Sandi Femino, anything I add to it is something bad.  So now,
apparently, if I say ANYTHING, and she's got a post somewhere within
the last 48 hours or so, I guess I'm saying shitty things about her.
Okay.  I'll play along.

Possible future post:  Sandi wrote:  "I had the pleasure of seeing the
Candle Light Processional this holiday season and was astounded by

Foxtrot replies:  "Yes, the Candlelight Processional is one of the
most beautiful things I've ever seen."

Rodney, Defender of the downtrodden comments:  "You really should stop
picking on her."

Foxtrot replies:  "What???  How could you have possibly come to that
conclusion?  I was agreeing that the Candlelight Processional is

Rodney replies:  "No you weren't, you couldn't have because it was
Sandi and you know you pick on and bully her, constantly.  Now here
you are, doing it a second time in the thread, even after I asked you
to stop."

Foxtrot querries:  "What, in God's name, are you talking about?"

Rodney replies:  "Well, look.  You, obviously, pointed out that she
wrote 'candle light' instead of "candlelight.'"

Foxtrot replies:  "Uh, no, I didn't really pay attention to how she
spelled the damn thing."

Rodney eggs on:  "Sure you did.  I believe you did."

Again, I'm shocked and appalled that you, of all people, would look at
a comment, such as the one I made and decide that it's, somehow
negative and an "attack" and then go on to insist that I must be lying
when I express my dismay that anyone could, possibly, read it that

Let's face it, if I wanted to say something mean about Sandi, I think
history shows that I'm well able to do it more directly than to do it
so cryptically that one would have to be baffled as to how anyone
could read through the lines so deeply as to find something negative
in that comment.

I would have made the comment to the first post I saw, regarding
direct mail advertising to someone from outside the state of Florida.
I'm still scratching my head, trying to figure out how you're
perceiving it as saying something bad.

Get over it, Rodney, contrary to paranoid beliefs, I really don't
care, in the slightest, to pick on, bully, or do whatever one wants to
call it to Sandi or any of the rest of "them."  A quick Google search
shows what I've always claimed:  If one of them starts making nasty
comments to me, I'll admit, I come back at them just as hard if not
harder.  You will not find me making an initial comment to one of
their posts that includes any "nasty" comments.  In fact, most all of
the initial comments will be, rather, benign.

Yes, I may, at times allude to something, out of the blue, regarding
something one of "them" did in the past and have it dripping with
sarcasm but I'm, certainly, not the only party in this imagined "feud"
who does that.

I also don't e-mail people, telling them that if they want to get
along with the "good" members of the group to ignore and/or put down
anyone else nor have the ego to believe that, if I did, many of them
wouldn't tell whoever was the target of the smear campaign about it.

Here's a great idea, let's ask Sandi:

Sandi, did you take offense to my comment.  Let's be clear, I'm not
asking if you took offense to ME, we all know you do.  Did you in any
way, shape or form see something evil and vile in my saying, "Hmmmm,
I'm surprised they didn't suggest an Annual Pass."?

For that matter, did any other person even begin to think that it was,
somehow, a slam at Sandi?

It wasn't.  Too bad that's not good enough.

I think this whole thing is kind of funny in a stupid way. I also was
surprised at the "bullying" comment. Golly, does Sandi have her own
chivalrous(sp) person here now, to defend her honor, again "bullying"
posts? How come I don't? Maybe because I can stand up for myself.
Golly, it's just a Disney newgroup. Lighten up.
I have often spoken up for others on this group who have been attacked, 
and made fun of for sport. 
How many posters, esp. new ones, have you seen come on here and be told 
they are liars or worse and have had every bit of their post picked to 
shreds and made fun of because they dare to say they had a bad 
experience at WDW?  Not just disagreed with, but insulted and made sport 
of because of their opinions.  Too many, IMO.

I have spoken up for myself MANY times.  But if you read this post, you 
will see that it does NO GOOD.

Here is an exerpt from the post above:

From: Charlie Foxtrot (
Subject: Re: Bypassing Monorail/Ferry to MK 
Date: 2/22/04

~As for the comment to "attack" you, as you so dramatically put it...
~I only do it because I know it irritates you and that amuses me to no
~end, being the childish little punk that I am.

When someone outright posts that they do something only to bother 
another RADPer, and that they derive amusement from that bullying, it is 
clear that speaking up for myself gets me nowhere and only creates a 
mess on RADP.  If you read what went on in Dec. and Feb. you may 
remember why I don't respond or speak up where this poster is concerned.

I appreciate Rodney speaking up for me in this case, and I assure you  
He isn't the only one who sees what is going on with these constant 
references/ attacks/bullying/stalking. 
I've had many emails from others who notice it too.
To me this is just one of the side effects of posting to a news group.
There is always the chance that someone somewhere will be offended. I
know I'm not heeding my own advice here, but why not ignore it? it
just seems that there are more rants after a post, that have nothing
to do with the original post. Some people have been attacked after a
first post here, but usually it's something like "Don't ever go to
WDW" and you read a TR where someone behaved arrogantly and posts
arrogantly and people are happy to point out the error of his/her
ways. Or the poor woman a few years ago who, in her first TR, said
that her family rents a wheelchair just for transportation, swapping
seats with whoever is tired. She never posted day 2 or anything else.
I guess I just wonder again, if you can ignore it, why can't Rodney?
The whole thing would have been dead a fews days ago if he had.
You are correct.  I am certain that I have offended several people, either
because they disagree with my opinions, they don't appreciate or understand
my humor, or they just don't like the fact that I enjoy the occasional
debate.  Regardless, I have never intentionally tried to offend anyone,
especially after being told that my previous posts had caused hurt feelings.
And don't take that as a "veiled insult" directed at anyone, especially
Foxtrot.  I am just saying that there are people that will try to purposely
hurt other's feelings, or know they are doing it and won't stop because they
enjoy it.  I don't.  Well, actually I'll admit that some of my arguments
with Bri*n got out of hand, but I don't believe any "feelings" were injured,
because he could obviously dish it out as well as he could take it.

It depends upon the post.  Certain topics here are very touchy with some
people and will inevitably evolve into arguments, but the majority of posts
are pleasant discussions and sharing of good information spiced with a
little humor.

Usenet is full of "trolls".  These are people that lurk for a while to see
what sorts of things stir up the group, then post a seemingly innocent
comment, hoping that it will be the seed of dissention.  Many of the types
of posts you mention are from trolls, and those that have been around for a
while can easily spot them.  I am sure some might be from people who "don't
know any better".  I tend to give a first-time poster the benefit of the
doubt, but most of the time, they end up being trolls.  Even if they aren't
they do bear some of the responsibility for their posts.  For example, when
you found RADP, did you just jump in and post, or did you read for a while
to get a "feel" for the group?  I know I did.

Because I've been ignoring it for a long time, and I guess I just had a bad
day and couldn't do it any more.  It actually bothers me to see people that
I enjoy spending "virtual" time with having such problems getting along.  Of
course I am not so naive that I would expect everyone to get along all the
time, but I would expect for people that can't get along to at least leave
each other alone.

The "whole thing" is only about 30 posts long, and only half of those have
been between Foxtrot and me.  if you really want to see some big, nasty
threads, do like I suggested to JackSparrowGA and Google for some of the
"hot button" topics.  And while you are there, go back and look at some of
my posts.  You will notice that there are just a few things that really get
me stirred-up.  I'm usually a happy-go-lucky kind of guy.  I try to be
positive, helpful and sometimes humorous, but I do have to pull out my
soapbox when something bothers me.  Someone pretending to be an expert and
insulting their opinions because a of a lack of "credentials" bothers me.
Bullying bothers me.  Trolls that carry their own toilet seats bother me.
People who believe they are entitled to more than their fair share bother
me.  People who fail to take responsibility for their own actions bother me.
And finally, people who drive slow in the fast lane go beyond bothering me.
I have been reading RADP for about 6 years now and am aware of the hot
button topics. And I know that you are usually happy-go-lucky guy. We
had a good discussion of driving habits a few weeks ago. I'd rather
read about people carrying their own toilet seat and looking for
treasure in their room or the dumpster anyway. It's much more fun!

Also, earlier you mentioned reading RADP for awhile before posting for
the first time. That is good advice. I didn't heed that myself. Back a
few years ago, right after I discovered RADP, I posted something that
ended up being rather stupid and inconsiderate. And I was flamed, but
it did teach me a good lesson about thinking before I wrote something,
and then maybe waiting before actually sending it. Sometimes I think
email should have a little buttopn that comes up, like when you want
to delete something, that says "are you sure you want to send this
message." Might prevent alot of grief.
You are taking some heat for criticizing RADP's deity, me.  I didn't
realize, until Paragon pointed it out, that some of these people
actually worship me.  That's so cool.  The others are now blasted
heathens!  Agree with the Almighty Foxtrot or perish!

I'm actually more amused by the ones who don't understand your humor
but aren't offended by you when they should be.

Too late!  My feelings have been hurt and I will beat you up, bully
that I am.  Next time you're around, we're gonna meet down by the
waterfront, behind BET Soundstage and The Adventurers' Club.  I'm
gonna take a bottle of Scotch, crack it open and make you drink some.
Then, I'm gonna open up a can of whupass!  You're gonna be sorry,

Now, what's going to be really funny is when someone, somewhere down
the road, uses just this part:  "My feelings have been hurt and I will
beat you up" to explain just what a dirty, rotten scoundrel I am.
Perhaps they'll even suggest that I'm kind of a wuss to say that my
feelings are hurt but then my ego stepped in and said, "I'll beat you
up," just to cover up my prior whining about hurt feelings.

I used to do a number on insects with a magnifying glass as a kid.
I've, recently, substituted certain posters' names in the new Outkast
song "Roses" much to my childish amusement.

For the record, I don't try to hurt anyone's feelings but I'll sure
make fun of someone who throws out the Victim Card the minute anyone
says anything that doesn't fall in line with what they think or - God
forbid - actually disagrees with them.  A good example would be
someone who values any opinion, as long as it jibes with their own.
Other opinions are hogwash or bullying comments.  Someone who feels
that one's opinion can't be wrong, unless it's coming from Mr. Foxtrot
who is, by default, incorrect in all matters.

Really, can you see where I'm coming from on this?  I'm not exactly
throwing stones at someone who can't dodge them but likes to pretend
they've been tied down by me in order for my missiles to hit the

Just once, I'd like either of the two professional victims of the
group to say, "You're wrong, Foxtrot because..."  and then present
some stuff to back up their stance as opposed to "He's wrong!
Everyone, please listen!  He's wrong and can't you see how mean he is?
See, he insulted me!  Isn't he such a jerk?  How can anyone ever
choose to be in his company?  It's beyond me!"

Christ, Rodney, you can do it.  You've challenged my stance and
presented evidence that has made me change my mind.  Then there are
times when I write off your evidence because I think what I've got
backing me up is superior.  Either way, Not once have I said a harsh
word to you because you always have reasoning behind your arguments
beyond "because I think so."  Hell, you can do it in a way that I
won't even add comment if I disagree with you because what I say and
what you say come from two schools of thought and everyone else can
decide which side to take as the "correct" side.  The more brilliant,
siding with me, of course.

It's kind of hard, though, to let that happen when I say, "It's true
because of the following..." and the retort is "See, he's such a big
meany head!  Let me show you some out of context quotes of his from
the past."

That's just no way to argue a position, in my opinion.

Same here and, like I said, man am I going to dish it out on you in
the future.  Tremble in fear, Rodney Grill!

And that bothers me, too.  What really bothers me is the "You can't be
friends with both of us" attitude and, please, don't deny its
existence, Rodney.  Too many others have told me about some of the
off-group discussions that have been tossed around.

That's one of my main gripes.  I'd never dream of telling anyone that
they better not be nice to any poster or that they'd suffer the wrath
of Foxtrot.  Really, all I do is what you say you're doing here...
Calling people on their bad behavior.  Thing that got me fired up is
that I meant no ill will in my comment and the person posting the
original post was irrelevent to my comment, which was about a general
subject matter.  I was just baffled that you would see it as anything

I, personally, think that the fact that the OP agrees that she was
offended by the comment (which for those not keeping up was "Hmmm, I'm
surprised they didn't suggest an Annual Pass.") is quite telling,

Which I've been doing since December...  The last time a certain
someone felt the urge to go public in the "Isn't he such a jag-off?
How can anyone like such a creep?" campaign.

Like I said, what really irks me is that I don't get nasty until
someone dishes it on me first.  Google any thread you please and
you'll find it to be true.  Some people just seem to have trouble in
remembering the first cross words tossed out.

Well, if anything, that says that my eloquent phrasiology is just so
much more memorable, I guess.

BUT - It would have been two posts long if you hadn't said anything or
at least not jumped to the illogical conclusion that I had some ill
intentions toward the poster in my reply and continued to insist that
I had to after I said I didn't.

You'd best change that stance or I'll have some boys from the Union
"talk" to you.

Next time you're around, we're gonna meet down by the waterfront, behind
BET Soundstage and The Adventurers' Club.  I'm gonna take a bottle of
Scotch, crack it open and make you drink some. Then, I'm gonna open up a
can of whupass!  <<

I wish you would get your locations and competition format straight, so
I can plan to attend. First it was bare knuckles at Wide World of Sports
and now it is whupass behind the Adventurers Club.

No you don't. Leave the Union out of this. They have enough to do renegotiating
the Disney contract.   

Mailbox is Locked  Un-Lock the Combination.
"If the Magic is done right it's still Magical even if you Know all the
I think there is plenty of bullying going on in RADP and it's truly
pathetic. Example one: There are those who feel they are the "true RADP
group" and therefore feel they have the authority to send emails to people
which dictate who the should and should not like. How childish! This is
Usenet and if you don't like someone, put them into your killfile and move
on with your life. No need to bully others into sharing your beliefs.

Example two: The group of individuals who hid behind new screen names just
to tell Fab that she wasn't wanted and had to leave the group while
threatening others in the process. The fact they hid behind phony names
instead of having the guts to use their own is quite telling. The fact that
they feel they are the most important people in the newsgroup and can tell
others what to do shows them for the bullies they truly are.

Example three: A small group of posters whine and cry - playing the sympathy
card - when it comes to a particular poster who they dislike. Instead of
being adults and just ignorning the poster, they can't stop drawing
attention to themselves by participating in those conversations where they
know a) the poster will respond and b) they do their best to try and look
like unsuspecting victims when, in fact, they are clearly demonstrating
bully behavior.

The bullying isn't coming from just one poster, so if you don't like that
kind of behavior, than at least recognize that it is coming from multiple
sources and treat them all equally with disdain or risk falling into the
bully category yourself via association with the others and providing them
with support.
I agree that there are several bullies on RADP.  The only reason I chose to
bring this up with Foxtrot was because I know him and I know that he would
take what I have to say seriously and not be hurt or offended.  Others, I am
not so sure about.  It's much the same way that you might tell your best
friend that her outfit is not flattering, but you would not do the same with
a casual acquaintance.

Are you slamming me, Rodney?  Just because I thought AP holders should have
their own groping Tiggers?

Sheesh.  ;-)


Well said Rodney!  Linda
Sure anyone is free to ignore anything, just as they are free to post 
anything.  But as Rodney pointed out, and I agree with, the bullying/ 
poking /stalking gets old and sometimes you just have to say something.
It isn't any one post on its own, it is the accumulation over quite some 

IF IIRC however, you chastized Rodney for speaking up for me, and then 
asked why I don't speak up for myself.  That post of yours was what 
prompted me to point out that I have spoken up.
So well said from the one who so advocates "Attack the post, not the

Now, see, Rodney, there's an actual slam at Sandi.  I think she's a
hypocrite and rather obnoxious.  I also never encourage others to
dislike her but she sure does try to do a job at convincing others of
how rotten I am.

Me, I just let her convince people what to think of her on her own.
She does a better job at that than she does at getting people to agree
that I'm a monster.

Well said Judy.  

And then there are those of us, like myself, that just get caught up in reading
all of this back and forth garbage like it's one of those twisted reality shows
(which I'm also a sucker for).  Why is it that I can't ignore all of this?!?!


18 days to go!
Well, it would be more fun if Jeff Probst was going to give away a Pontiac
Aztec at the end of the thread.

TDC Ginny Favers, Captive Princess of Chickapin Hill
Planning my next trip way, way, way too far in advance:
2004 - WDW - Fort Wilderness Cabins
2005 - Disneyland
2006 - WDW - Coronado Springs
Trip Reports at
Because we're so damn amusing!

I wrote...

Ok, I admit it.  I find it amusing.  There...   are you happy?!?!   ;-)

17 days to go!

You know what?  I wasn't really following this thread once it turned into a
fight, but someone just informed me that my name was brought into it.  I
have the person who did it killfiled and normally ignore works
both ways, this ignoring thing.  I also see that he happened to mention some
comments that I allegedly made, that I don't remember making (at least in
this group).  So instead of ignoring me, he goes out of his way to slam me
in a thread that I am not involved in.  I think it's the ego thing: some
people want attention--and even negative attention is enough. I also think
that some people can't handle the fact that not everyone worships him/her.
I can think of three such persons on this group.

Unfortunately, insults come easier than compliments---it's human nature.
It's also human nature to want to get the last word--which is why so many of
these attack threads go so long.....

Anyway, this is my only post to this thread. And I won't be reading it,
Um, no, Paragon.  Where did I slam you?  I said that you hate and
despise me and admit it, without going to the lengths of making up
lies about me to justify your hatred.

It was a compliment, of sorts.  I said that I have nothing bad to say
about you because you just choose to dislike me.

No where did I suggest that you said anything specific.  I just said
that you hate me, as this message makes clear.

Of course, you do go with your usual MO of claiming that you'll not,
further, take part in this discussion so as to avoid answering my
question of "Where did I slam you?"

After all, all I said was that you don't like me.  Is that not true?
Seems so by this typical response from you.

Really?  So can I!  I wonder if our lists are the same?

Really, I can not care less who likes or dislikes me.  It's the people
who feel free in making up lies (IE:  Foxtrot has problems in dealing
with women...  That's Sandi's mantra) to push the "We should all
dislike this poster" agenda.

I guess that's why I didn't insult you.  Too bad you're verring onto
the path of making shit up to justify your hatred of me.

But, really.  Sandi being the one in question, here...  What's the
worst I've done?  I've said she was wrong on various subjects.  That's
really it.  I might have said something mildly insulting after a few
attempts to explain why she was wrong about something but, all I've
ever done to piss her off is tell her she's wrong.

What do I get in return?  Called an abuser of women, a bully, and
other various insults that carry no evidence to suggest they may be
true.  All for saying, "No, you're wrong on that point."

Yet, I'm the real asshole.  Go figure.

And if anyone is so dull as to not see the absurd wording of that
statement for what it is...  Well I've had that discussion too many
times to bother again.

Yes, I agree that everyone should.  It's amazing what a picture the
entire threads, read from beginning to end, paint versus one out of
context sentence.

The Februaray thread, for instance, I was just as nice as could be,
even self-efacing in my statements, admitting I could be wrong.  Then
along came LJCefali who started tossing insults, which I gave back,
which brought out "this poster" who seemed to not notice LJ's snide
remarks and putdowns but could read my responses just fine.

Yeah, everyone should read what went on in December and February.  I'm
in 100% agreement.

So I take it that you DO find the words "Hmmm, I'm surprised they
didn't suggest an Annual Pass" to be offensive.  That paints a
brilliant picture of the situation too, IMHO.

You ought to see the e-mails that I get and what they notice.

It's funny how the "my e-mail support" tactic can be slammed by
someone then used when it suits them.


That's the problem.  I believe it is totally relevant because had it not
been Sandi or a handful of other people, you would not have said anything.

Yes, I know what you were alluding to, and I also know that Sandi did in
fact participate in that discussion.

Sure, but I don't pick on the same people over and over again.

It wasn't necessarily the nine words, but it was
Well, that's completely untrue.  I was, truly, just commenting on the
content of the mail ad being discussed.  In all honesty, I didn't even
pay attention to WHO wrote the damn post.

I also am fairly shocked and disappointed that someone I respect and
consider a friend would think I only replied because it was Sandi
making a statement.  I would have thought you knew me better than
that.   Well, either that or I thought I knew you better than I do.

If anything the comment I made was a slam at LJCefali who harped,
endlessly, about the subject, insisting I was wrong.  In reality, I
was, more or less, intending to poke fun at myself by continuing my
portrail of a person who just won't give up on something he believes
or knows to be true.

If she did, she certainly didn't say anything that I found offensive
or incorrect.

Brian?  I guess that doesn't count, huh?

FWIW, I don't pick on the same people, either.  I'm rather benign
until someone decides to say something shitty about me.

Like I said:

To add to that, I don't have a problem with anybody in the group.  I
make fun of those who have a problem with me.  I offer to and attempt
to play nice on a regular basis, again, something that can not be said
about the people in question.

This NG has been a much more pleasant place since Bri*n's long-overdue
departure.  Unfortunately, I see you trying to keep that type of
argumentative environment alive.  I am simply calling you on this.  I would
do this to anyone, regardless of friendship.  In fact, I would be more
likely to bring this to the attention of a friend.  I know you well enough
to realize that most of your posts are "for amusement purposes only".
However, there are some people here that obviously don't find them amusing,
so while you may see your comments as being sarcastically humorous, they see
them as attacks and I believe you know that.

As for my arguing with Bri*n, I did it only because he was such an ass.  It
was also good practice for when I had to debate my own issues at work.
There are many people here that have beliefs and opinions with which I
disagree, but I don't go around attacking them.  I have my own opinions
about many of the most heated arguments here, but I often stay out of them
because I don't want to contribute to an increase in the level of aggression
on the group.

I am not trying to get into an argument with you.  I am simply asking that
the next time you go to the keyboard, think about what you are writing and
to whom you are replying.  Realize that our messages are being archived for
(potentially) all of time.  Would you be proud to have Austin reading
everything you have written?  Have you always behaved in a manner that would
set a good example for him?  Have you ever posted something and then
regretted it?  I am not saying that you have or have not, but these are the
things I think about when I post.  It helps me keep myself in check.
I credit it to something else, myself.

Unfortunately, I see a couple of others trying to do that.

Actually, I find it amusing but in a sad sort of way.  

What's really sad is that this particular exchange had no ill thoughts
behind it, what so ever.  Read the posting history.  I just don't come
out and "get nasty."  I only put someone down in exchange for their
put-down towards me.  

I think it's kind of funny that I'm the one who's called "childish"
when I'm the one who just wants to let the past go by and look toward
a brighter future yet others hold a weird grudge.

Funny!  You know why I argue with...  Aw, forget it.

Me either.

In other words, let certain people say anything, even if it's wrong
and by all means, don't agree with them.

I don't know, I'd have to go over "everything."

That's kind of subjective.

Yeah, and when I appologized for it I was called a pathetic creature
and told that I was lying.

You ought to see all the stuff I never end up posting.  Trust me, I
walk on eggshells when dealing with some of these, shall we say, more
sensitive posters.  I, honestly, don't know how the words "Hmmmm, I'm
surprised they didn't suggest an Annual Pass" could be considered the
slightest "attack" on a person.

I mean, really, let's go with the whole "attack the post, not the
poster" mantra that we're supposed to live by.  How can those words be
seen as an attack on EITHER?  Yet, it's easy to see that your original
reply is not directed at the words, since you admit you directed the
reply to what you THOUGHT my intentions were and you were incorrect.

And you wondered why I went to the extreme of asking people if they'd
like me to stop posting.  Apparently, anything I say is construed as
some embodiment of evil, to some.  If it's really that bad, I'm not
interested in posting to the group since that's not why I ever sought
it out.

Because I don't believe you would have posted the same reply had the
original message been from someone else.  The whole "AP's are really only
for locals" argument died out over a month ago.  Sandi's post had absolutely
nothing to do with AP's.  Your comment was way out of the context of her
message.  If you wanted to post your comment to be sarcastically funny, then
you could easily have made the reply to my post a few weeks ago about not
getting a renewal notice for my AP.  Now, that would have been some humor I
could have appreciated.  Especially sine I was right there in that argument
totally opposed to your opinion.

No, my reply was not directed at the comment itself.  If you want to know
the truth, I can really appreciate the humor of it as I enjoy cold-served
sarcasm as much as the next guy.  What I do see is that it's just another
"poke" at Sandi to get her into an argument and honestly, I'm just tired of
it.  It's the same thing Bri*n used to do and it serves no constructive

 I don't believe there are too many people that would like to see you go
away.  Of those, there are few that would admit it because they'd be afraid
of the "retaliation".  I do believe there are many people here who enjoy
discussing things about Disney parks and even enjoy the occasional debate
over opinions, and they would like to see all of us be more mature and
reasonable in our disagreements.

That's quite a stretched metaphor.  I would not go as far to say "evil", but
I think it's fair to say that some of your comments can be quite "mean".

Why did you seek it out?  I would guess that it's for entertainment
purposes, because unless you know something the rest of us don't you aren't
being paid to post.  I am here for entertainment purposes, but if I ever
thought anything that I posted had intentionally hurt someone else's
feelings, I would be quite disappointed in myself.  I hope my comments to
you have not hurt your feelings.  All I am trying to say is that when people
say you are being mean, there could be some truth in it.  You and I have met
in person on several occasions.  We have had some off-line discussion.  I
consider myself to be a fairly reasonable person and liberal in the sense of
not letting other people's actions and opinions bother me.  However, I
immediately took your comment to Sandi to be intentional meanness.  I am
sure that if I did, then others likely did, too.  There are many
contributions you make that are good, such as your TR's, your assistance to
people with questions, and your willingness to join in mini-meets and even
your humor.  I would just prefer that you not entertain us with humor at the
expense of other poster's feelings.
Alright, then what about a few days, or so, ago when someone posted
about an acquaintence who asked about seeing WDW in a day.  I replied
to that rant with "No, people don't do that sort of thing, or so I am

No one took offense to that and, yes, it's pretty much my track record
to point out when someone posts something that supports something I
had to say that had someone all heated about how wrong I was.

For the record, the person who was most vocal in that argument (about
how the typical WDW visitor has zero knowledge of the place, even
though they think they do) replied to my comment with a little
emoticon that showed that she took it as lightly as I did.

So, you are wrong, I would have jumped in with a comment like the one
I made, here, to the first post I saw that discussed a direct mail ad
that pushed packages, with no mentions of APs since THAT'S WHAT THE

No but it had to do with what IS marketed to people who reside outside
of Florida and quite a few people seemed to want to believe that WDW
advertising is just filled with enticements to purchase APs - which
they are not.

If you say so.  Most every thread ends up way out of context of the
original post.

But that wouldn't have made any sense.  Not getting an AP renewal
notice, by mistake or lost mail, has nothing to do with what WDW
promotes to the general public.  Listing off what the contents of a
direct mail ad does address the subject and gave me a dead horse to
beat to make me feel superior in some weird way.

ANYBODY could have written the post and I would have made the same
comment.  I don't know how many times I have to say that.

Okay but here's what I dispute:

How?  I didn't even pay attention to the fact that Sandi was the
poster.  I don't know how many times I have to say that, either.  Hey,
my opinion of Sandi is well known and if I want to take a jab at her,
I'll be the first to admit it.  Why would I sit here and repeatedly
state that the comment had NOTHING to do with Sandi.  I'm still
wondering, exactly, what line of reasoning leads you to interpret such
a lame statement to being some sort of tool to get under her skin.

For God's sake, let's face it...  If I said that I'm happy that so
many families have a good time at WDW - I think that Sandi would find
it offensive.  If I said it in reply to something she said, I KNOW
she'd figure it was, somehow, a put-down toward her.

It's troublesome when someone of rational thought starts to think that
way.  That's what's truly disturbing.

Me to.  That's why I tend to ignore her.  I meant what I said every
time I've stated in the last couple of years that I won't say a damn
thing about her until she decides to whip out her usual ration of
untrue comments about my person.  She didn't do that until she felt
safe in this thread with you as back-up and I was quite nice in my
reply to that garbage.

What retaliation?  I might say that they suck, or something?  BFD.
Anyone who wants to say that they don't like me is free to do so and I
really don't care if they do.  It's when they start to make up
bullshit stories and outright lies that I'll go after them.  Two
people in this group have that distinction.  

If you don't believe that, Paragon makes it no secret that she thinks
I'm about the lowest form of life on the planet and I don't have a bad
word to say about her.  Why?  She just says it:  She can't stand me.
She'd probably rejoice if she heard I died in a firey car crash
tomorrow.  I'm fine with that.  Not once has she ever stooped to
inventing stories to support her reasoning for not liking me.  She
simply thinks I'm an asshole.  That's cool with me.  Her loss that she
doesn't get to hang with Foxtrot, although I'd be more than happy to
let her and never once mention her prior dislike of me.

Man, do I ever hear that!  Now if those who are more than ten years my
senior could start acting mature we'd all be fine.

What?  You don't get your check from Usenet, Inc.?  

I feel the same way.  That's why when two people refuse to accept my
appologies and have a never ending grudge, all while denying that they
have a grudge, I tend to be amused by their ramblings and delusions.

Nah, but we are going to have to bare knuckles box at the Wide World
of Sports Complex.  It would, probably, draw the biggest crowd they've
ever had there.

Well, so far, three people have asked me either via e-mail or phone if
I did something to piss you off since they can't figure out where
you're coming from on this either.

Like I said.  I try to avoid Sandi and the other one like the plague,
unless one of them starts spouting off about me.  If anyone finds
words like "Hmmmm, I'm surprised they didn't suggest an Annual Pass"
to be an attempt to belittle them, there's not much I can do.  If
comments that can't possibly be construed as "a personal attack" are
being construed as such, there's not much I can do.  Like I said, I
could say anything and she'd find it offensive and call it an attack
if, God forbid, it's a comment on something she said.

Doesn't leave me a whole lot of wiggle room, if you ask me.

Hmm....I think I got one Disney e-mail re Mission:Space and that was it! No
other e-mails or snail-mails. I guess coming once and staying at the
Wilderness Lodge on the Fairytale package wasn't enough to put me on any
mailing lists. Even though I did order the new planning 2004 dvd when it
first came out ....

Ruth Ann, staying way out of that "other" discussion
I  wonder why you feel to be the conscience of the newsgroup, Rodney?

I don't.  I don't feel the need to be the "anything" of the newsgroup.  I am
simply one of many people who post here.  What I do feel is the need to
express my opinions and one of them happens to be that there is a level of
nastiness floating around that I personally dislike.  I was hoping that my
comments would possibly make Foxtrot consider that his comments aren't
always taken as harmless humor and sarcasm, even by people like me that can
actually appreciate his rhetoric.
Now I know I should just butt out here, but let me get this straight.
Sandi posts something, Foxtrot comments and then Rodney comments on
Foxtrot, Foxtrot comments on Rodney, Rodney comments on
Foxtrot.....does this just go on forever? Does anybody really care?
Anyone remember an old Newhart show where Michael was considered a
deep and knowledgeable thinker because of these words,
"Let it go."?

Just my two cents,now back to whatever.
Close, Judy.  You missed the part about "Foxtrot makes a completely
benign comment and people pretend it was the most awful thing anyone
could ever say."

And this particular incident is really stretching that concept.

But isn't that what communication is all about?
Just like my response to your comment.

Now, YOU have the chance to respond to me.
Isn't Usenet Wonderful. {:-)

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